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Miles Plumlee - Spencer Hawes / Roy Hibbert Trade Discussion


I can see it, I guess - Plumlee will do a better job of doing Cody Zeller things than any of the other candidates to play center that are/were on the roster, so you don't have to switch up your play style to accomodate a backup big - you can just kind of rotate the two in the same offense. It's a healthy contract he's on, but I didn't expect Charlotte to have significant cap space this summer anyway and with limited trade assets to work with taking on a long-term deal is likely the cost of doing business. Given the much larger cap exceptions that will be in play under the new CBA there's something to be said for working over the cap instead of killing yourself to free up one big salary slot that may not be taken by anyone.


  • 121 Comments

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    GeraldWallaceMVP
    Feb 02 2017 04:29 PM

    A trade just to trade is not a positive thing. We got a guy the bucks were dying to get rid of in exchange for the tiny amount of cap space we had left. Borderline backup center owed $40 million.

    Never a good thing


    Idk I just felt like the team was just un motivated. Shaking it up might be a good thing
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    QC Thundercats
    Feb 02 2017 04:30 PM
    I recall plumlee did take over Monroe's starting spot last year. Anybody have a link to his starting numbers? Maybe once they figured out Monroes niche, they realized they didn't have room for plums anymore?

    A trade just to trade is not a positive thing. We got a guy the bucks were dying to get rid of in exchange for the tiny amount of cap space we had left. Borderline backup center owed $40 million.

    Never a good thing

     

    Here's the thing though... I think it helped with cap space.  at least next year.    It took a small bit of cap space (not very good bench player), and a small MLE (not very good bench player) and turned it into a bigger MLE that we can use on a better than bottom of the barrel free agent.  

     

    Other than that it's a pretty blaaaaaah trade.   

     

    I think Cho has earned the benefit of the doubt on trades and cap management though.   Have to see what all shakes loose. 

    unless plumlee is better than both hibbert and hawes by a wide margin and cho correctly identified another great blah trade at the time that turned into a really good piece.

     

    just trying to stay positive here.

     

    If one bouncy white guy from Indiana that played college ball at a top-tier North Carolina school and has a couple brothers with NBA experience is good, then two is better, amiright?

     

    Here's the thing though... I think it helped with cap space.  at least next year.    It took a small bit of cap space (not very good bench player), and a small MLE (not very good bench player) and turned it into a bigger MLE that we can use on a better than bottom of the barrel free agent.  

     

    Other than that it's a pretty blaaaaaah trade.   

     

    I think Cho has earned the benefit of the doubt on trades and cap management though.   Have to see what all shakes loose. 

     

    This is sort of how I look at it - the path to cap space was pretty tricky and involved salary-dumping current regulars in the rotation, so Plumlee effectively becomes their free agent signing and they preserve the $8.something million midlevel exception that should also net a decent supporting piece. I think they may have the new bi-annual exception available next year too. If Plumlee looks good in Charlotte, it's a solid move. If he doesn't, then the contract's a problem, same as any free agent signing was going to be. I think he should serve as an acceptable backup though.

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    GeraldWallaceMVP
    Feb 02 2017 04:56 PM

    I recall plumlee did take over Monroe's starting spot last year. Anybody have a link to his starting numbers? Maybe once they figured out Monroes niche, they realized they didn't have room for plums anymore?


    Idk but his per 36 Last year was 13 points 9 rebounds and 2 blocks
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    GeraldWallaceMVP
    Feb 02 2017 05:01 PM
    Lmao Cho just said he is a good fit but he didnt say playing wise, he said culture wise


    Basically Hornets wanted a big white guy for MJ to get excited about

    Man I just haven't felt good with their moves since after the Lee trade last season. Their offseason was garbage and led to this trash trade too. They threw money at Batum and now have this fairly shitty contract where both players HAVE to play up to the contract or else we're pretty f'd... smh....

    Couple of meaningless thoughts from everyone's favorite sarcastic HP member:

    -I wish all of us could gather for a 5 minute Skype conference with Cho to help us understand what the fuck is happening.

    -my apathy towards this trade matches the apathy I have for the team right now.

    -does this trade mean that hibbert wasn't our mid season MVP?

    -this reminds me of the belinelli trade when we all anticipated something larger happening which never did.

    -I'm sorry kemba walker-you don't deserve this. I hope kemba goes crazy on his teammates publicly.

    -when is my hot rnets planet membership fee due? I can't believe I paid $50 for this shit.
    Hawes seemed like a good guy. However could the politics have gotten to the locker room. Seemed like a pretty hardcore republican. There doesn't seem to be much coming out of the locker room politically other than that. As we've seen recently, people have been annoying with their political positions recently. Maybe this wore thin in the locker room.

    -this reminds me of the belinelli trade when we all anticipated something larger happening which never did.

     

    This I agree with. I don't think this was part of the set-up for a follow-up trade, it seems to me like Cho just getting a guy he thinks will help win another game or three over the course of a season, and whether or not anything else happens between now and the deadline will happen independently.

    Man I just haven't felt good with their moves since after the Lee trade last season. Their offseason was garbage and led to this trash trade too. They threw money at Batum and now have this fairly shitty contract where both players HAVE to play up to the contract or else we're pretty f'd... smh....

     

    I pretty much entirely don't see this.  We had a FA roster that was impossible to (all) resign so we went after what most felt (and I still do) the best keepers in order, Nic an Marvin.  Lin was a non-starter, in many ways, but irrespective of what anyone thought of him, the idea that he had more value to this team than those two is a huge HUGE risk.  That he's been sidelined for most of the season all the more makes the current state not a bad option.  Lee was another player offered a significant starter role, that we could not offer him.  And perhaps had we not re-signed Marvin, Lee would have occupied that same salary and we would have slid Nic and MKG up.  But that we targeted Marvin first makes total sense to me.  And Al, I mean I was probably the biggest Al fan here and I am not clamoring that we should have retained him.  He wasn't getting faster, better defensively or guaranteed to be healthy.  

     

    So that leaves the draft, and for anyone that thinks we got the worst end of that for a this year and next value, I don't get it.  There are precious picks 10-15 better than we had that would be as much of a contribution off the bench than Marco.  

     

    All in all, the offseason wasn't bad considering the deals we did make and whom we were able to retain.  I wish that Ramon proved out better than he did and Hibbert had a rebirth here more like Kwame rather than he did but we have to expect some shots won't fall, they are movable contracts fortunately. 

     

    This trade makes me scratch my head a bit but not too much.  If we are 1 for 12 games without Cody and we can replace his backup with someone more like him than the two we had, and still have some latitude for a trade and roster spot, it doesn't seem like that bad an option.

    Lmao Cho just said he is a good fit but he didnt say playing wise, he said culture wise


    Basically Hornets wanted a big white guy for MJ to get excited about


    How many more does mj want?lol

    Hawes seemed like a good guy. However could the politics have gotten to the locker room. Seemed like a pretty hardcore republican. There doesn't seem to be much coming out of the locker room politically other than that. As we've seen recently, people have been annoying with their political positions recently. Maybe this wore thin in the locker room.

     

    I had floated this a few weeks ago and it was generally panned by the majority of folks here.  I don't think it could possibly "fully" be a reason behind anything, but I did, and still do, believe anytime someone is vocally political in the workplace, it can have a cooling effect on relationships where others see the world through a different lens.  Again, there's no way it fully contributes to anything - losing is the trump card there and there are likely a litany of other characteristics that stack up in front of this.

    How many more does mj want?lol

     

     

    Well, considering that they followed it up by signing Tobey....

    Well, considering that they followed it up by signing Tobey....


    I totally missed that.... damn.
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    Veteran_Picksetter
    Feb 02 2017 07:30 PM

    Looking for the positives here......

     

    1. In '13/14 Miles Plumlee started 79 games for Phoenix and they went 48-34. He was good for 8 and 8 with 1 block on just under 25 minutes a night.

     

    2. Hawes had the worst +/- per 36 minutes of anybody on the most recent roster at -7.4. Hibbert had a negative +/-. They just weren't a fit. We have to attack with 5 mobile guys. I wonder if Hibbert will be in the league next year. 

     

    3. Like others have said, Plumlee somewhat duplicates what Zeller can do. He'll fit with the playing style when Zeller is sitting. Plus he might even bring more physicality and rebounding. 

     

    4. Maybe, just maybe, this is a gamble that will work.......

     

    5. Maybe Buckets is right. Maybe this is where we take the small ball leap mixing in MKG at 4 and Frank at 5. Balls-to-the-wall run and gun? 

    Plumlee absolutely can't be worse than Hibbert and only a slight possibility of being worse than hawes. It is his contract that is the problem.

    Also Hibbert is oof the books and I would not be surprised if hawes didn't opt out. So that could be a double ouchy if Plumlee sucks. I used to watch him in the durham summer pro am. I never once thought "now there is a basketball player"

    I have seen a decent amount of plumlee games. He is a large defensive upgrade and can help match up against bully bigs a lot of his points are like cody's on put backs and pick and rolls to the basket.He can also play good D with out fouling he gets good defensive positions. He is not good at the FT line and is limited more then 15 feet from the basket. I mean we did give up some flexibility, but how many will miss Hawes and Hibbert they just did not fit here. 

     

    P.S. see the 4 years 52 mill. Holy hell what are we doing thought it was 4/24. Looks like this trade does give us the full MLE for the next 2 years.

     

    found a video on reddit. 

     

    With Hawes and Hibbert defensive responsibilities were offloaded onto CHA's 4's and MKG. Adding Plumlee means never trotting out an immobile big and should streamline how CHA defends with both units. Specifically, life just got easier for Frank (like a lot easier) and marginally so for MKG/Marvin when Cody is out. 

    To hell with Mike Tobey... hopefully, Christian Wood gets more burn.

    How much money does Larry Sanders want? Who does he want to play for?

    I haven't been this depressed about the team since we lost out on Anthony Davis....

    This deal screams treadmill.

    We tanked 3 years for this? Why take on that contract? WHY???????

    Signing Big Al was a huge mistake and it's went downhill from there.... Why didn't we just re-up Biz for 5 years, $40M when he would have gladly taken it? I would have rather traded 2 first round picks to Denver for Nurkic, I'd rather had done nothing, started Hibbert for the rest of the season and tanked this shit out of this year...

    Chi must have got an ultimatum of playoffs or getting fired... No way a guy with job security makes this kind of panicked future be damned move....

    I'm pissed, disappointed, and have lost hope. I'll still be cheering my ass of on Saturday night but, god this sucks....
    What exactly do people see in Wood that justifies NBA playing time? Cause 30 GM's passed on drafting him...twice...then Philly cut him and CHA stuck him in the D.

    I pretty much entirely don't see this.  We had a FA roster that was impossible to (all) resign so we went after what most felt (and I still do) the best keepers in order, Nic an Marvin.  Lin was a non-starter, in many ways, but irrespective of what anyone thought of him, the idea that he had more value to this team than those two is a huge HUGE risk.  That he's been sidelined for most of the season all the more makes the current state not a bad option.  Lee was another player offered a significant starter role, that we could not offer him.  And perhaps had we not re-signed Marvin, Lee would have occupied that same salary and we would have slid Nic and MKG up.  But that we targeted Marvin first makes total sense to me.  And Al, I mean I was probably the biggest Al fan here and I am not clamoring that we should have retained him.  He wasn't getting faster, better defensively or guaranteed to be healthy.  

     

    So that leaves the draft, and for anyone that thinks we got the worst end of that for a this year and next value, I don't get it.  There are precious picks 10-15 better than we had that would be as much of a contribution off the bench than Marco.  

     

    All in all, the offseason wasn't bad considering the deals we did make and whom we were able to retain.  I wish that Ramon proved out better than he did and Hibbert had a rebirth here more like Kwame rather than he did but we have to expect some shots won't fall, they are movable contracts fortunately. 

     

    This trade makes me scratch my head a bit but not too much.  If we are 1 for 12 games without Cody and we can replace his backup with someone more like him than the two we had, and still have some latitude for a trade and roster spot, it doesn't seem like that bad an option.

     

    The problem I have is slightly less on the players and more on the prices we paid for them. We were in a good position with great contracts for our players and with this offseason it's not been great return on the money and I don't see it with Plumlee either but we'll see I guess....