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#1 ziggy Posted 01 May 2016 - 03:47 PM

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Off the bat, there are 2 names I'd like to discuss. Both Centers

 

1 - Hassan Whiteside

I know, I know... he's a bit of a knucklehead and he is going to command big bucks, but close your eyes and think about him and MKG working together defensively... Pretty impressive visual, Right?

 

2 - Joakim Noah - When healthy he is one of the premier defensive centers in this league. Plus he is an intelligent team first guy. For a reasonable price, he'd be a nice addition to the team on and off the court.  The real questions on him are how much he has left and how healthy is he?

 

What are your thoughts on these 2 guys?


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#2 superb1 Posted 01 May 2016 - 04:23 PM

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Always liked Noah since Florida and wanted us to draft him years ago. But Whiteside would make a difference for our core.
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#3 Adam42R Posted 01 May 2016 - 04:47 PM

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If Al isn't part of this team, I'd love to court Noah with a reasonable contact.
Here comes McRoberts, the throw to Walker, it's in the aaaaaiiiiirrrr, YESSSSS! Bobcats win it! My my my, Kemba Walker. Steve Martin - Toronto 12/18/2013
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#4 Hornets686 Posted 01 May 2016 - 05:28 PM

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Go trade for Brook Lopez!
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#5 Potato Posted 01 May 2016 - 05:31 PM

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Idc Whiteside scares me too much. He's still so immature, would rather not give him a max

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#6 Hornets686 Posted 01 May 2016 - 05:55 PM

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#7 JGib23 Posted 01 May 2016 - 06:55 PM

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Agree with Ziggy. Additions of either of those Centers makes us a real contender in the East.... We have to address starting Center. Cody is a really nice back up Center, we need a dog.
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#8 buckets Posted 01 May 2016 - 07:34 PM

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Off the bat, there are 2 names I'd like to discuss. Both Centers

 

1 - Hassan Whiteside

I know, I know... he's a bit of a knucklehead and he is going to command big bucks, but close your eyes and think about him and MKG working together defensively... Pretty impressive visual, Right?

 

2 - Joakim Noah - When healthy he is one of the premier defensive centers in this league. Plus he is an intelligent team first guy. For a reasonable price, he'd be a nice addition to the team on and off the court.  The real questions on him are how much he has left and how healthy is he?

 

What are your thoughts on these 2 guys?

 

 

Whiteside has 3 red flags: fit, possible personal issues, and salary. I'd avoid him for sure. Any team going past 2 years is playing with fire (and they will).

 

Offensive Fit - In a vacuum he's an elite scoring PnR C but that ignores passing and screening in PnR. Otherwise, he's a gifted O rebounder but it won't translate for Clifford. He can't post (54 out of 64 players with 100 possessions). Possibly the worst passer in NBA history (317 out of 317 players in assist ratio). An alarming TO ratio for a non-passer (13.8). He also clogs the lane - Al is a relative floor spacer by comparison. His FT % has gone up recently but it's unclear if that's sustainable (59% career FT).

 

Defensive Fit - obviously an elite shot blocker, though mitigated by other stuff but we ignore that cause blocks are impressive. He has crummy footwork, chases blocks, a weak base, and a sometimes motor. When in foul trouble he's disproportionately less effective compared to other C's (see Nylon Calculus link below). And for all his length, he's probably Miami's worst front court defensive rebounder.

 

Miami Dreb% Whiteside On = 76.2%, Miami Dreb% Whiteside Off = 79.7% (team worst all positions). Against Charlotte he doesn't look as bad because Charlotte doesn't Oreb, but vs. 15+ teams that's a huge problem - like against Valancianus if they play Toronto.

 

http://stats.nba.com...=DREB_PCT&dir=1

 

http://nyloncalculus...ubled-by-fouls/

 

Personal - Whiteside has been handled by Miami in a contract year with a dangling salary carrot surrounded by Riles, Spo, Wade, Haslem, and Bosh. Few teams have that infrastructure supported by a great owner. Before Miami, a decade of never finishing a season with the same roster. I don't see why year 10 is the rule instead of years 1-9. What happens when he signs for $20 million with a less respected franchise surrounded by young players, say Washington?

 

Salary - $23 million is huge coin for a 27-year old with maturity issues (to be kind). He immediately becomes the highest paid Hornet - and also the oldest under contract besides Hawes - making him the de facto leader for a team that just no-showed game 7. Plus, the opportunity cost of paying Whiteside $23 million for an already top 5 defense with MKG and the need to complete the roster based upon Whiteside. He'd make the offense worse (possibly even the defense) and team overall. 


#Chodidthemath
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#9 buckets Posted 01 May 2016 - 07:40 PM

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Noah - love the idea. His personality is exactly what CHA needs. Plus he's a rebounder and supremely skilled passer. He's in decline though and likely better suited as a 3rd big.

 

** Bonus Round.  Horford - he's ideal, then again, he's ideal for a lot of teams. He's a 4/5 defender who spaces the floor, passes, and would be a glove fit with Cody, Frank, Nic and MKG. And Kemba, who would benefit from a C who Pops on offense and helps cleanup PnR issues on D. Charlotte would be better defensively with Horford vs Whiteside - and not a stretch to say a top 5 defensive and top 5 offensive team. 

 

Horford can name his team though, making him very unlikely. Otherwise, I'd round out the roster this summer and save powder for the February deadline.


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#10 Adam42R Posted 01 May 2016 - 07:43 PM

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Horford would be a beyond magical acquisition but for that reason it seems ever so unlikely.
Here comes McRoberts, the throw to Walker, it's in the aaaaaiiiiirrrr, YESSSSS! Bobcats win it! My my my, Kemba Walker. Steve Martin - Toronto 12/18/2013
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#11 BigAl Posted 01 May 2016 - 07:45 PM

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Sign DWIGHT HOWARD!  He was not the "cancer" in Houston, that was Harden.  Clifford could draw the best out of what Howard has in the tank and with Cody on the team he doesn't need to push himself.  With a guy like Dwight in the middle it will take a lot of pressure off Kaminsky on defense and we won't get destroyed on the boards anymore...

 

Now tell me how wrong I am!


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#12 Adam42R Posted 01 May 2016 - 07:48 PM

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You are so beyond wrong. This isn't about cancer, he's got the BBIQ of an actual basketball. That's NOT what Cho has been compiling to date.
Here comes McRoberts, the throw to Walker, it's in the aaaaaiiiiirrrr, YESSSSS! Bobcats win it! My my my, Kemba Walker. Steve Martin - Toronto 12/18/2013
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#13 buckets Posted 01 May 2016 - 07:53 PM

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Sign DWIGHT HOWARD!  He was not the "cancer" in Houston, that was Harden.  Clifford could draw the best out of what Howard has in the tank and with Cody on the team he doesn't need to push himself.  With a guy like Dwight in the middle it will take a lot of pressure off Kaminsky on defense and we won't get destroyed on the boards anymore...
 
Now tell me how wrong I am!


Very, very, wrong. You're a prisoner of the moment - Charlotte was the best defensive rebounding team all year up against a top 5 Oreb team sans Nic, MKG, a healthy Cody, and healthy Hawes.

Otherwise, solid points.
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#14 charlottesobserver Posted 01 May 2016 - 08:02 PM

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New poster here.  I've been on Reddit all season, but you don't get the substance on there as I've read on here so far.

 

Anyway, if you want to see my post history, jump on the Hornets reddit page and I've posted under the same handle.

 

Wanted to throw my 2 cents in...as I've been following the Hornets somewhat closely since the Cho era began a few years ago.

 

I think the 4-5 will be tough to fill for Cho this offseason as "Buckets" is pretty much on point with his analysis of Horford/Joakim/Hassan.

Which leads to the sad reality of, who/how next?  At the 4, you have Frank, who's still leaps and bounds away from being a quality starter in this league, but a very solid 2nd year backup.

 

Ditto Cody.  Cody starting was more a reflection on opening up the offense, than him outplaying Al, aka a better fit.  But Cody is limited, esp on offense.

 

So you have a backup 4 and 5 in place (for low money).  But if Cho and Co want to continue the new-normal NBA offensive philosophy of 3's, FTs, and layups, then you need a competent stretch 4 and/or 5....just like the rest of the league.

 

So I guess Hawes would still occupy the third 4-5 spot.  But then you'd have to pony up for a guy like Ryan Anderson, who i'm not high on anyway.

 

So there really isn't much out there.  Not sure who's in the draft, but you probably won't find an NBA ready center where the Hornets will be drafting.

 

There's Drummond, but he's not a great fit for this team.  Festus Ezeli?  Probably not much more you'll get from him than Cody.  Nene would be great...like 6 years ago.

 

Ugh...it's not looking good folks.  I think you just grin and bear it with Cody and dump a lot of money on a 3-4 type player like Harrison Barnes (though not Harrison himself)?


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#15 iowabobcat Posted 01 May 2016 - 09:29 PM

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I'd love to get Whiteside, but I don't think we'll have the cap space to get him. Batum is obviously priority #1 and will get near max, if not max money. Lin will also be a high priority.


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#16 iowabobcat Posted 01 May 2016 - 09:46 PM

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I wonder if MJ would be interested in letting the team go over the cap this offseason. IIRC in the past he's been against going over cap, but that was when we were fighting to be relevant. If we have a chance at acquiring a player that the FO believes can make us contenders in the ECF/Finals I have a hard time believing MJ says no. 


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#17 buckets Posted 01 May 2016 - 11:17 PM

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I wonder if MJ would be interested in letting the team go over the cap this offseason. IIRC in the past he's been against going over cap, but that was when we were fighting to be relevant. If we have a chance at acquiring a player that the FO believes can make us contenders in the ECF/Finals I have a hard time believing MJ says no.


There's no doubt MJ is open to the idea. Cho didn't hide the fact he considered Bird Rights a valuable resource.
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#18 Mich_Mercer Posted 01 May 2016 - 11:58 PM

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Id be thrilled if we could sign Whiteside. He was the difference maker in this series. I felt he blocked or altered every shot we put up tonight. I feel like he could mature with us. That said, I don't think he's leaving Miami. In that case, I wouldn't hate it if we went after Howard. He would provide the rebounding and shot blocking we need inside. I just think he'd fit in well here. We have enough redundant "high IQ" bigs who know how to play. What we really needed this series was Biz, but that's a something I know isn't smart to bring up here (I know he sucks... So they say).
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#19 Chef Posted 02 May 2016 - 04:18 AM

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what about trying to trade for john henson or nerlens noel? 

 

i wonder if some combo of lamb + 1st would move the needle?


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#20 ziggy Posted 02 May 2016 - 05:05 AM

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what about trying to trade for john henson or nerlens noel? 

 

i wonder if some combo of lamb + 1st would move the needle?

 

I'd be open to something like that. 


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