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- - - - - coaching change gm change draft

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#41 Adam42R Posted 13 February 2018 - 08:36 PM

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Had an interesting thought tonight, if you bring in a new GM that wants to put his stamp on things, feel pretty certain he deals Kemba for some pick-haul or combo of pick and vet if he can. Would have to imagine that the notion of one of our only two time All Stars in this market won't have as much importance to someone coming in seeing things new (as it would the locals). Seems several ESPN commentators that I hear treat a dealt Kemba (this summer) as a foregone conclusion.
Here comes McRoberts, the throw to Walker, it's in the aaaaaiiiiirrrr, YESSSSS! Bobcats win it! My my my, Kemba Walker. Steve Martin - Toronto 12/18/2013
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#42 dnbman Posted 13 February 2018 - 09:36 PM

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Had an interesting thought tonight, if you bring in a new GM that wants to put his stamp on things, feel pretty certain he deals Kemba for some pick-haul or combo of pick and vet if he can. Would have to imagine that the notion of one of our only two time All Stars in this market won't have as much importance to someone coming in seeing things new (as it would the locals). Seems several ESPN commentators that I hear treat a dealt Kemba (this summer) as a foregone conclusion.

 

I think that assumes that a new GM would be given the mission of complete rebuild. Needed or not, the Hornets will continue to look at all of the incentives to making such a trade, including have a product that people still want to watch. The only way I see them agreeing to trade Kemba is if you're fairly certain you can draft or sign a replacement all-star within a short period of time. 

 

We all saw what it was like for the Bobcats to try and draft that star or lure one without an existing star: it's very challenging. 


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#43 Founding Hornet Posted 13 February 2018 - 10:54 PM

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I’ll be back in a few days with my predictions.
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#44 BrotherDave Posted 13 February 2018 - 11:56 PM

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This makes logical sense.  But I'm of the opinion that the rebuild never really ended, it only took a break to make sure fan interest didn't dip into apocalyptic numbers.  So yeah Cho maybe throwing crap against the wall right now, but it's because a championship is unattainable and an outright tank is undoable.  He's being forced by market, or by Jordan to play the middle line here.    

 

I think we've kept our picks, and generally our LONG term cap stability is in tact.   I think this roster was built to be competitive while maintaining future assets and flexibilty and it's not competitive at all.   That's on the coach.  

 

We've kept our picks for the most part but that's largely b/c they have so little value around the league.  Even our 2x All Star in Kemba was signed to a relatively cheap deal b/c at the time he wasn't commanding a lot of attention in a league chock full of good scoring PGs.   You draft players nobody wants, that's on Cho.    

I tend to agree.

We were a defense first team when we made the playoffs but nowadays opponents light us up from all over the court. 

We somehow need to find a better balance between helping in the paint and defending the three point shot. 

 

We're also lacking an offensive coordinator. There are too many possessions where we rely on Iso plays instead of ball

and man movement. That might work out with Kemba or Lamb and to a degree with Dwight but more or less every other player 

needs someone facilitating for him. 

Nic Batum stands out at this too. He's rarely shooting of a screen or spots up like he used to do in his first two years.

He's mostly taking his turn-around fade way jump shot... a horribly difficult shot to take. There are not many Players through

the History of the NBA that made this shot on an efficient basis and I think we can agree he's not one of them.

Nic isn't shooting off screens as much b/c refs aren't getting baited into cheap 3pt fouls as often.  Nic was notorious for throwing up a three immediately around a screen and using the contact generated by the defender fighting over it to flail and trick the ref. 


Hornets hipster:  Hated Al Jefferson before it was cool.

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#45 pellom Posted 14 February 2018 - 08:19 AM

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Had an interesting thought tonight, if you bring in a new GM that wants to put his stamp on things, feel pretty certain he deals Kemba for some pick-haul or combo of pick and vet if he can. Would have to imagine that the notion of one of our only two time All Stars in this market won't have as much importance to someone coming in seeing things new (as it would the locals). Seems several ESPN commentators that I hear treat a dealt Kemba (this summer) as a foregone conclusion.

Alternatively, a lot of big money comes off the books in two years, which should allow them to give Kemba the money he wants. To me, the strategy could just as easily be to tank for two years, get talented guys early in the draft that fit with Kemba, and continue to build around him.

But to do that, we’re going to have to find a new GM that can draft well. I’d try to poach someone from Golden State, Toronto, Utah or Miami.
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#46 Adam42R Posted 14 February 2018 - 08:53 AM

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Alternatively, a lot of big money comes off the books in two years, which should allow them to give Kemba the money he wants. To me, the strategy could just as easily be to tank for two years, get talented guys early in the draft that fit with Kemba, and continue to build around him.

But to do that, we’re going to have to find a new GM that can draft well. I’d try to poach someone from Golden State, Toronto, Utah or Miami.

 

I wasn't as concerned with the financials as much as someone coming in wanting to put their stamp on things.  This was inspired by a dialog I heard last week about the trade deadline and a new GM that seemed to have attempted to overreach for the appearance of accomplishment.  It made me think that if you are a new​ GM coming in and want to prove something, Kemba gets you picks to play with.  

 

Interesting on the poaching; I have been trying to think of that (from a GM perspective) for a while and I agree with you on Utah but when I think of Miami, I think it's the coaching; when I think of GSW and SAS, I think it's coaching and the franchise culture. 

 

On a different bent, I hear folks say that David Griffin would be a great hire, is that something folks here would gravitate toward?  Looking at his transaction record, I am not excited about that as a concept.  


Here comes McRoberts, the throw to Walker, it's in the aaaaaiiiiirrrr, YESSSSS! Bobcats win it! My my my, Kemba Walker. Steve Martin - Toronto 12/18/2013
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#47 cltblkhscoach Posted 14 February 2018 - 09:18 AM

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If I'm bringing someone in, it would be from Toronto. Toronto is the model of what we want to be. They built from the middle into the current #1 seed in the East and they've grown steadily over the past few years. Their best players are guards and they understand how to complement that style. 

 

Derozan was the #9 pick in the draft and developed into their star, and they built around him with free agents and smart trades, and a coach in Casey who's defensive oriented, and realized his offensive system wasn't getting them past the first round, and adapted into something more relevant. 


Allan Bristow Is The GOAT

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#48 Mich_Mercer Posted 14 February 2018 - 03:33 PM

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We've kept our picks for the most part but that's largely b/c they have so little value around the league.  Even our 2x All Star in Kemba was signed to a relatively cheap deal b/c at the time he wasn't commanding a lot of attention in a league chock full of good scoring PGs.   You draft players nobody wants, that's on Cho.    

Nic isn't shooting off screens as much b/c refs aren't getting baited into cheap 3pt fouls as often.  Nic was notorious for throwing up a three immediately around a screen and using the contact generated by the defender fighting over it to flail and trick the ref.


I kind of see that more about Clifford than Cho. I just don't think he develops guys at all. Players tend to just stay the same and never really improve a lot. Before we bring anyone in, we need a new coach first, to make sure that's not the problem. We leave Clifford her and get a new GM, it's going to be the same thing. I wish we could keep Clifford as an assistant, as I think he does have good basketball knowledge but I know that just won't happen.
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#49 powellrmp Posted 14 February 2018 - 05:03 PM

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I'm not having fun anymore.
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#50 WIAN Posted 14 February 2018 - 06:24 PM

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If I'm bringing someone in, it would be from Toronto. Toronto is the model of what we want to be. They built from the middle into the current #1 seed in the East and they've grown steadily over the past few years. Their best players are guards and they understand how to complement that style.

Derozan was the #9 pick in the draft and developed into their star, and they built around him with free agents and smart trades, and a coach in Casey who's defensive oriented, and realized his offensive system wasn't getting them past the first round, and adapted into something more relevant.


If the Raptors have an ugly exit from the playoffs what is the next move? I ask because as well they're playing we have seen this movie before. They're like the playoff version of the Hornets. I'd imagine their fans are just as frustrated.

Sounds crazy but I don't want to be in that position either. I think the Hawks finally woke up and got out of that mindset. If and when we make that "next" step I want it to be legitimate. That's the attitude I want for the next GM/Coach.
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#51 cltblkhscoach Posted 14 February 2018 - 07:37 PM

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They were just in the Eastern Conference Finals, not too long ago I think they have the formula

Allan Bristow Is The GOAT

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#52 BrotherDave Posted 15 February 2018 - 07:59 PM

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I'd kill to be the Raptors.  I'm as pro-Process as anybody but for Charlotte to cap out as a conference finalist?  That'd be fucking awesome.  That's a treadmill I can be a part of.


Hornets hipster:  Hated Al Jefferson before it was cool.

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#53 cltblkhscoach Posted 15 February 2018 - 09:59 PM

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I mean I would take the Hornets in the Eastern Conference Finals. Hell weve never been, this city would be on fire

Allan Bristow Is The GOAT

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#54 pellom Posted 16 February 2018 - 11:06 AM

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I'd kill to be the Raptors. I'm as pro-Process as anybody but for Charlotte to cap out as a conference finalist? That'd be fucking awesome. That's a treadmill I can be a part of.


There’s a scenario in which we get there quickly.

Minnesota is about to trade Wiggins. Apparently Thibs hates him. Batum and 1sts (however many it takes) for Wiggins? I like Kemba/Wiggins as a Lowry/DeRozan comp.
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#55 mrtarheel Posted 16 February 2018 - 05:05 PM

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There’s a scenario in which we get there quickly.

Minnesota is about to trade Wiggins. Apparently Thibs hates him. Batum and 1sts (however many it takes) for Wiggins? I like Kemba/Wiggins as a Lowry/DeRozan comp.

Where did you see this?  Doubt they would want Batum though probably would want MKG.


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#56 WIAN Posted 16 February 2018 - 06:07 PM

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I mean I would take the Hornets in the Eastern Conference Finals. Hell weve never been, this city would be on fire


No doubt I would take the ECF. I'm only saying if Toronto makes a return trip this year and gets swept, where do they go from here? I just want to have a realistic chance b/c as we know this doesn't happen every year.
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#57 BrotherDave Posted 16 February 2018 - 10:50 PM

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There’s a scenario in which we get there quickly.

Minnesota is about to trade Wiggins. Apparently Thibs hates him. Batum and 1sts (however many it takes) for Wiggins? I like Kemba/Wiggins as a Lowry/DeRozan comp.

I'd do it but I feel about the same way as I did the Howard trade.  It's an upgrade but a whole bunch of question marks.  We don't seem to do a very good job of developing young guys (MKG?!) so I'm skeptical of Wiggins breaking out here but I'd rather pay a young man that money with the chance he does than Batum that's going to be on the decline probably. 

 

I have a feeling though that if Thibs hates Wiggins than Clifford probably would too.  They're buddies and share a lot of similar coaching philosophy from the Van Gundy tree.


Hornets hipster:  Hated Al Jefferson before it was cool.

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#58 Mich_Mercer Posted 17 February 2018 - 10:43 PM

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I'd do it but I feel about the same way as I did the Howard trade. It's an upgrade but a whole bunch of question marks. We don't seem to do a very good job of developing young guys (MKG?!) so I'm skeptical of Wiggins breaking out here but I'd rather pay a young man that money with the chance he does than Batum that's going to be on the decline probably.

I have a feeling though that if Thibs hates Wiggins than Clifford probably would too. They're buddies and share a lot of similar coaching philosophy from the Van Gundy tree.


This is why we must get rid of Cliff first. But, Wiggins is already better than everyone but Kemba on our team. I also think he's actually better than it looks, with so much talent being in Minnesota. I'd kill to have him.
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#59 GeraldWallaceMVP Posted 18 February 2018 - 12:40 AM

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Wiggins or bust


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#60 Adam42R Posted 20 February 2018 - 10:50 AM

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So the fire Rich Cho folk should be happy.
Here comes McRoberts, the throw to Walker, it's in the aaaaaiiiiirrrr, YESSSSS! Bobcats win it! My my my, Kemba Walker. Steve Martin - Toronto 12/18/2013
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