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The Goat meets Lebron, Hornets vs Lakers

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#41 Adam42R Posted 27 October 2019 - 11:02 PM

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Our starters all had reasonable games but our bench gave us nothing.


Throw rotten fruit at me for saying it if you want but without Nic, the second unit is going to really struggle.
Here comes McRoberts, the throw to Walker, it's in the aaaaaiiiiirrrr, YESSSSS! Bobcats win it! My my my, Kemba Walker. Steve Martin - Toronto 12/18/2013
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#42 GeraldWallaceMVP Posted 27 October 2019 - 11:03 PM

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The biggest things we need are rim protection and a consistent 20+ point scorer, we pass a lot better this year than last and the effort is miles better. 


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#43 buckets Posted 27 October 2019 - 11:13 PM

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The biggest things we need are rim protection and a consistent 20+ point scorer, we pass a lot better this year than last and the effort is miles better.


Teams can get away with poor rim protection so long as the C gives NBA level minutes. Not an ideal situation but certainly not a dealbreaker in being a decent Playoff team.

The handling, paint attacking, primary scorer, or whatever we wanna call it is a non-negotiable to being a decent team. As is Hornets simply do not have a single player who’s above positional average in that regard. Like, almost no one to force a defensive rotation off the bounce.
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#44 Whiz Kid Posted 27 October 2019 - 11:27 PM

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I think Malik is really trying to play the right way through the flow of the offense, but they gotta run some stuff to get him going too. Devonte's ascension I think has hurt him in the 2nd unit, as strange as it sounds


It’s starting to look to me as if JB’s offense literally isn’t designed to include Monk and he’s just looked at to get in where he fits in. I looked at the stats and he averages the least touches on the team so far outside of Nic (who doesn’t really count). That’s one of those things I can’t really blame him for. He’s seemed to try to play within the offense and nothing more these first 3 games. The way the touches are set up his mistakes are going to be amplified more so than others due to limited opportunity. The question is whether the plan is to attach him to an expiring to try to bring back some assets or what, it’s obvious where he stands with the team. Why continue to allow him to lose trade value?
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#45 buckets Posted 27 October 2019 - 11:30 PM

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And to be clear those aren’t criticisms of the players. Holding players accountable for things that were knowably outside their skill sets coming into training camp isn’t fair or reasonable.

Just merely pointing out the reality of what matters offensively and the FO not addressing it in the off-season.
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#46 nowhere fast Posted 27 October 2019 - 11:44 PM

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At least we know what we're looking for from this year's draft class.


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#47 Keetch Posted 27 October 2019 - 11:46 PM

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We have one competent big.

Zeller vs. Davis, McGee, Howard, LeBron; I mean come on. Our 5 position is a serious problem. Cody can’t play 48 minutes and I’m sorry but Marvin and/or PJ can’t handle guys like AD or KAT good grief; much less Dwight Howard. That’s a loss write it down.

I thought Miles had a very nice game. Bacon too (kind of). The Lakers are so big; Davonte wasn’t getting good looks and shot it anyway; probably not advisable. He’s still our best PG though.

Monk was shooting freaking 🧱s. Awful night for him.
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#48 buckets Posted 28 October 2019 - 12:15 AM

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We have one competent big.
Zeller vs. Davis, McGee, Howard, LeBron; I mean come on. Our 5 position is a serious problem. Cody can’t play 48 minutes and I’m sorry but Marvin and/or PJ can’t handle guys like AD or KAT good grief; much less Dwight Howard. That’s a loss write it down.
I thought Miles had a very nice game. Bacon too (kind of). The Lakers are so big; Davonte wasn’t getting good looks and shot it anyway; probably not advisable. He’s still our best PG though.
Monk was shooting freaking s. Awful night for him.


Let’s be real every position group is below NBA average - no need to engage in hyperbole by portraying the C opponent as KAT and AD equivalents on a nightly basis. Not to mention Howard and Javele are paid league minimum for the same reason Charlotte doesn’t need a rim protecting center to be decent.

The distinction being made here is that Charlotte doesn’t suck because there’s some latent potential just waiting to be unlocked by a high level rim protector. Charlotte is bad because they lack NBA skills that are the most difficult and expensive to acquire. And they need NBA bodies regardless of position.

Where I agree is that Charlotte could use Zeller - or the equivalent production - for 30 minutes a night for 70+ games. If that means going out to get another productive NBA center to supplement Zeller, Marvin, and PJ so be it. Having a rugged vet would help the younger players.
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#49 nowhere fast Posted 28 October 2019 - 12:32 AM

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Someone who can set picks is a start.  Help the players we do have until a real shot creator comes along.

https://stats.nba.co...onType=Playoffs


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#50 buckets Posted 28 October 2019 - 01:02 AM

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Someone who can set picks is a start. Help the players we do have until a real shot creator comes along.https://stats.nba.co...onType=Playoffs

Yep Cody, Marvin, a developing PJ, and Ed Davis for example is pretty easily Charlotte’s best positional group. Or instead of Davis a Birch, Baynes, Looney, Holmes, Robin, WCS, etc....

That C rotation isn’t gonna win you 50 games but it’s not gonna prevent winning 50, either. And most of those dudes can be had for less than an above average backup point guard.
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#51 Keetch Posted 28 October 2019 - 03:51 AM

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Let’s be real every position group is below NBA average - no need to engage in hyperbole by portraying the C opponent as KAT and AD equivalents on a nightly basis. Not to mention Howard and Javele are paid league minimum for the same reason Charlotte doesn’t need a rim protecting center to be decent.

The distinction being made here is that Charlotte doesn’t suck because there’s some latent potential just waiting to be unlocked by a high level rim protector. Charlotte is bad because they lack NBA skills that are the most difficult and expensive to acquire. And they need NBA bodies regardless of position.

Where I agree is that Charlotte could use Zeller - or the equivalent production - for 30 minutes a night for 70+ games. If that means going out to get another productive NBA center to supplement Zeller, Marvin, and PJ so be it. Having a rugged vet would help the younger players.

I think the other positions are capable of competing with anyone. They’re our team and they look like a fun ride at least.

JB is giving Biz and Willy a few looks but then decides Marvin and PJ are better; even against guys like AD. That’s a ridiculous situation to be in. Watching our forwards trying to contest the paint just made me sad. I think I might have let Willy burn his 6 fouls at least. It’s unfair to those guys; especially against high talent.
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#52 Adam42R Posted 28 October 2019 - 06:44 AM

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I think the other positions are capable of competing with anyone. They’re our team and they look like a fun ride at least.

JB is giving Biz and Willy a few looks but then decides Marvin and PJ are better; even against guys like AD. That’s a ridiculous situation to be in. Watching our forwards trying to contest the paint just made me sad. I think I might have let Willy burn his 6 fouls at least. It’s unfair to those guys; especially against high talent.

What's worse for development long term between playing 4 on 5 offensively (Biz) or 4 on 5 defensively (Willy)? I'm not sure you should have a lot of patience for "vets" that cannot play even below average for their role as I don't think it's helping the young guys to learn how to play competently. If that means playing Marvin at the 5, then so be it, it's not like we need him at PF anyway. Personally, I'd play exclusively Cody, Marvin and MKG at the 5 and if we get lit afire by opponents because of that, at least the youngsters are learning how to move the ball or play team defense even in horror show resulting losses.
Here comes McRoberts, the throw to Walker, it's in the aaaaaiiiiirrrr, YESSSSS! Bobcats win it! My my my, Kemba Walker. Steve Martin - Toronto 12/18/2013
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#53 Adam42R Posted 28 October 2019 - 07:32 AM

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Really seems like Monk is afraid to shoot now. That's a highly undesirable situation.


Whether scared to shoot or unable to discern a good shot from bad, really worrisome.
Here comes McRoberts, the throw to Walker, it's in the aaaaaiiiiirrrr, YESSSSS! Bobcats win it! My my my, Kemba Walker. Steve Martin - Toronto 12/18/2013
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#54 cltblkhscoach Posted 28 October 2019 - 07:34 AM

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What's worse for development long term between playing 4 on 5 offensively (Biz) or 4 on 5 defensively (Willy)? I'm not sure you should have a lot of patience for "vets" that cannot play even below average for their role as I don't think it's helping the young guys to learn how to play competently. If that means playing Marvin at the 5, then so be it, it's not like we need him at PF anyway. Personally, I'd play exclusively Cody, Marvin and MKG at the 5 and if we get lit afire by opponents because of that, at least the youngsters are learning how to move the ball or play team defense even in horror show resulting losses.


There is certainly something to be said for having veteran guys that can contribute to aid our young guys in development. And a veteran decent big shouldnt be expensive. Im sure they want to give Wily every opportunity but damn if he cant help on this roster then just let it go.

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#55 Mich_Mercer Posted 28 October 2019 - 09:10 AM

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The game last night was so hard to watch at the end of the 3rd and 4th quarter. It still makes zero sense to me why we let Frank go... it would be nice to have him and Zeller right now. Why can’t MKG get off the bench. I still think he’s our best defender. Why can’t he play? why did the Martin twins play so much against the Wolves. I feel like we have both of them, just for PR. And why do they have matching haircuts and beards? Are they 12? I just don’t get it.
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#56 buckets Posted 28 October 2019 - 10:05 AM

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I think the other positions are capable of competing with anyone. They’re our team and they look like a fun ride at least.
JB is giving Biz and Willy a few looks but then decides Marvin and PJ are better; even against guys like AD. That’s a ridiculous situation to be in. Watching our forwards trying to contest the paint just made me sad. I think I might have let Willy burn his 6 fouls at least. It’s unfair to those guys; especially against high talent.


No doubt we agree on Biz and Willy. The situation goes from a learning environment to chaos the second they step foot on the court. Those 2 just don’t give NBA minutes which has been Biz’s M.O. 4 years running now.

I guess where we simply disagree is on Charlotte’s 2-deep positional quality and the importance of the center position itself within the NBA landscape. Cody + Marvin is a respectable albeit unremarkable rotation (and PJ for spot minutes) and IMO easily Charlotte’s best positional group of solid NBA minutes. Admittedly not great and something I’d like to see supplemented by a sturdy veteran backup who gives OK starter minutes when Cody gets hurt.

As far as other positions are concerned IMO Charlotte competes admirably although I wouldn’t necessarily consider effort levels as synonymous with being competitive most evenings. After center the most competitive group on a relative NBA basis is PF but again, that gets back to Marvin and PJ and in an alternate universe where winning mattered, MKG.

And I happen to think Charlotte’s defensive woes continue to be perimeter oriented far more than interior. That was the case each of the past several years, something that has been compounded by rolling with almost exclusively young players 1 thru 4 in most lineups.
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#57 Chef Posted 28 October 2019 - 10:48 AM

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No doubt we agree on Biz and Willy. The situation goes from a learning environment to chaos the second they step foot on the court. Those 2 just don’t give NBA minutes which has been Biz’s M.O. 4 years running now.

I guess where we simply disagree is on Charlotte’s 2-deep positional quality and the importance of the center position itself within the NBA landscape. Cody + Marvin is a respectable albeit unremarkable rotation (and PJ for spot minutes) and IMO easily Charlotte’s best positional group of solid NBA minutes. Admittedly not great and something I’d like to see supplemented by a sturdy veteran backup who gives OK starter minutes when Cody gets hurt.

As far as other positions are concerned IMO Charlotte competes admirably although I wouldn’t necessarily consider effort levels as synonymous with being competitive most evenings. After center the most competitive group on a relative NBA basis is PF but again, that gets back to Marvin and PJ and in an alternate universe where winning mattered, MKG.

And I happen to think Charlotte’s defensive woes continue to be perimeter oriented far more than interior. That was the case each of the past several years, something that has been compounded by rolling with almost exclusively young players 1 thru 4 in most lineups.

 

i can't believe you are having to type this much about something that was plain as day before the season started.


Holding out hope that Mike sells.

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#58 buckets Posted 28 October 2019 - 11:01 AM

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Whether scared to shoot or unable to discern a good shot from bad, really worrisome.


Malik is at 12.5% usage and 10th in 3PA rate (a tick above Cody at 11th).

Not sure what’s going on but he’s definitely not there mentally.
#Chodidthemath
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#59 buckets Posted 28 October 2019 - 11:03 AM

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i can't believe you are having to type this much about something that was plain as day before the season started.


Im trying, Chef
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#60 buckets Posted 28 October 2019 - 11:28 AM

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You just hate seeing GSW searching for the same answers.



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